"First off let me make it perfectly clear that we are strictly Five Elder Monk Mew Hing's 18 Daoist Palms Association. We have nothing to do with any other organizations. We are Mew Hing Productions, a home study video exchange certification program since 1991."

When did you start training in iron palm?

"I started formal lessons in the martial arts full time in 1973. My interest in breaking was stimulated via the acquaintance of other breakers, some world famous. I often learn through osmosis. I attended exhibitions, school testings and other public events where breaking was being taught or demonstrated. I moved to San Diego around 1976. I immediately joined an Elua Lima school. The school emphasized sparring and going to our Grandmaster’s tournaments. From the late 70’s all through the 80’s I was a voracious magazine and book collector. I studied how others conditioned the hands as well as the entire body. I always packed a good punch naturally and absorbed like a sponge all I could. Back in those days it was mostly bricks, boards, glass and ice that I witnessed being broke. It really became a part of my niche when my former Chinese kung fu teacher started training me in traditional Five Elder lineage breaking. I learned that there was more to breaking than just procedures. Absent from anything I had been privy to was knowledge about dit da jow as well as the traditional iron palm moving meditations. I also became aware of how many types of iron palm existed. Coconuts became my focus in breaking seriously around the early 80’s."

What about the similarities of breaking emphasized in the different arts?

An honest breaker respects all types of breaking. The mainstream mass exposure to breaking usually deals with end supports. The material varies but in general boards or bricks. We have things like this because the ‘hidden art of kung fu’ was not openly publicized, let alone taught out. The most lethal non-mechanical weapon ever devised, the string break, was basically off-limits. Imagine the consequences of large strong body types learning this? So, more predictability would be needed in breaking events that all levels of practitioners could participate in. This is a good thing. The danger factor in traditional breaking is safer overall in standard competitions because of the awareness of danger and proper protocol. Grandmaster Hee Il Cho is an excellent breaker with true technique using unsupported breaks with traditional materials. Professor Ed Brown is in a league of his own…definitely an all time legend. Most breakers specialize. Very few if any of us have delusions of grandeur that we could duplicate everyone else’s break on any given day. Breaking is a true test of courage/faith and focus providing one is trained properly in his teacher’s specialty.

Since Pankration and the continuance of Professional boxing the emphasis has been upper body fighting, knock out or standup submission fighting. Do you think there is a connection with iron palm interest here? Do you think there is a connection with iron palm principles that make the undisputed heavyweight boxing champion of the world at any given time the highest paid athlete in pro sports minus endorsements, per minute worldwide?

In Greek Pankration, it was about wining through stand-up hitting or grappling your opponents into say a submission or choke. The lesser mud wrestling never quite caught on. So, you could say that history will confirm time and time again that boxing is the more manly way to win. Wrestling is manly, don’t misunderstand me, it is just that it is not as manly as knocking someone out with a punch. Take the Old Testament example of Jacob in his wrestling match with the Lord’s Angel. It sure gave a plug to Jacob’s wrestling, tenacity and faith. But examine the story further. The Angel of the Lord used its hand to cripple Jacob’s hip. In kung fu we say root with the feet and fight with the hands. If one cannot defeat their opponent in one to four moves of a real fight both should run as neither knows what they are doing. When I grew up in the 50’s it was considered girl fighting to kick, scratch, grab or pull hair. Girls fought like that and went to the ground. The main thug, bully or good guy, could always win with a flurry of punches.

Why haven't we seen a heavyweight "known" martial artist of the World?

We are still waiting for a Mexican Heavyweight Boxing Champion. Ruiz is close. It takes heart. It takes a certain pride. Not only would an oriental martial artist have to get up to the weight and upper body strength needed, they would have to have the faith and courage to go the manly route of toe to toe fist fighting. No athlete on the face of the earth makes what the boxing heavyweight champion of the world makes at the pure sport per minute of work without endorsements. The "people" have spoken. The heavyweight-boxing champion is the epitome of machismo. Remember, if it were otherwise the people’s money would be there. The feminization of every new generation of males is apparent. The younger generations are smarter and in better shape, but lack the older generations courage and wisdom. There is really nothing new under the sun.

Do you think it will happen?

We have not seen a known martial artist prove they can take their deadly skills and adjust to the rules of a heavyweight-boxing match. So many probably know they would not win. It would be an embarrassment to their culture they may falsely think. The Irish did it. So did the Italians and Blacks. We even had a German and Swede. The money is there and world recognition, but still no takers. It is a form of denial. That is why one must give the Mexican heavyweight Ruiz respect for having the guts to try.

Do you think the Olympics will ever have breaking? How soon before we see Olympic Karate and Kung Fu?

I think eventually every race will have their first heavyweight-boxing champion of the world. I believe it is the manly way to sport fight. As long as "the people who pay" also feel this way, it will be up to the other methods to step up to the big money not the other way around.

Breaking in the Olympics is a real possibility. Mas Oyama required a break from his black belt sparring competitors to prove their worthiness to even step in the ring; by first proving they had a conditioned fist. Perhaps Kung Fu or Karate once in the Olympics can be the first to highlight breaking. We live in such a litigious society that it scares teachers. Also, while the new generations of youngsters are healthier and bright, most of them have wimpy hands. The fact that they tape their hands in sports and wear gloves is to protect their hands. The holding of a proper fist, developing an unstoppable punch and inner iron forearm coupled with the iron claw and entire hand being conditioned in iron palm methods that have results tested by breaking itself, is left out of most schools. I think Karate will make it before kung fu. Ironically you will see more breaking events at Karate Tournaments than Kung Fu Tournaments. At most you will not see breaking at all.

What about liniments and tonics for iron palm? What did and do Western boxers use?

Herbal liniment assistants like external rub dit da jow have caught on and improved all areas of training, albeit over the counter types are still all folks can get. The pre-made types are rarely dependable lineage and often do not list the names and weight proportions or how long the ingredients were aged. What are the best breaks of the person selling you the liniment in the first place? Learn to make your own. It is a forever thing, like having a roller bar and grab bag…basics stuff! The old day bare-knuckle fighter used liniments like a half once of cayenne pepper powder with an once of myrrh and once of golden seal. They would soak in rubbing alcohol or other such cheap medium for a month or two. Salt, brine and ash were used. Guys like Jack Dempsey hit bare knuckle on cattle carcasses to simulate a real body.  By Dempsey's time boxers wore much thinner gloves than today, but still a wimp out from bare-knuckle days.

Since we covered the coconut breaks at the different levels, how about some insight into other traditional types passed down in your 18 Daoist Palms System?

Yes, we have many types of iron palm passed down to us in the 18 Daoist Palms System. A partial list would include levels of coconut breaking up to the ultimate string break, the Tibetan Lama Burning Palm, Mew Hing’s 8 Levels of Sone Tan Burning Palm, the Shattering Palm types and levels, the rare Fire Palm, Springy Palm, Shaky Vibrating Palm, Shil lum Mountain One Finger Burning Palm, ways to destroy the Shattering and Tibetan Lama Burning Palms and much more. This is a good question, because all these types don’t mean a heap of beans if they cannot enhance the coconut break on the string, that is the ultimate litmus to the effectiveness of ones iron palm, historically and literally.

So, you are basically saying that everything revolves around the "hidden art" of different levels of coconut breaking?

Exactly. Now there are those that will want to learn all the types of iron palm without engaging in breaking. Their main focus is to balance risk of injury with the benefits to be gained. To go through the various iron palm training types without injury even if you do not break, is still a worthy goal as bruises, sprains and strains or worse can happen if one gets rushed and over exuberant.

Can you elaborate a bit on the traditional ways of demonstrating proficiency in say the Tibetan Lama Burning Palm?

Traditionally up to nine people could be lined up belly to back. The Tibetan Lama Burning Palm Master could selectively leave a complete handprint without hurting the individual on any one of the nine he chose with his intent. In modern times this is much too dangerous. The key I used at a demonstration was two thick phone books and a light slap. The lighter the slap and the clearer the ‘entire’ hand mark the better. Don’t try it!

How about the 9 levels to destroy it?

The nine levels to destroy the Tibetan Lama Burning Palm are an example of how the monks would try to one up each new development. Sort of like a modern day arms race. In reality it is a higher level with esoteric connotations as well. Remember, Taoism is metaphysical! By definition a false-science. There are many paths to the One perhaps. Many believe much of Taoism’s tenets are trappings from the Salem missionaries who trained in the times of Abraham and his mentor Melchizedek 4000 years ago, or what we Westerners refer to as ‘recorded history.’
 

What would the Shattering Palm traditionally have been used for? Are there levels to destroy this as well?

The Shattering Palm was originally a rock breaking technique. In modern times we use it to more perfectly shatter coconuts.
Have you ever felt the effects of the Shaky/Vibrating Palm?
I have felt the effects of the Shaky/Vibrating Palm. I have video of me attempting to move a hanging lamp on a chain from a foot or so away. Believe it or not we did this type of training and documented it. Way before I learned these (there are variation types,) I felt my former teacher move liquid in my stomach from a half foot away. There was no question the energy could vibrate through a human body.
Have you ever seen a demonstration of the fire palm? Are there hidden dangers in training to ignite things? Does anyone still do this in China?

I have seen footage of my former teacher supposedly ignighting a small piece of paper. It was just a fraction of the only footage. A student of mine licensed in Acupuncture in China and who helped me on the Panther series, did see his teacher in China show him this technique originally valued at $15.000.000 to learn. If lucky it could be learned in ten years and at least a few hours training at the same time daily. The fire palm required some sexual abstinence, not much. It also required a strict diet and certain herbal liniment preparations like mountain yam to be rubbed all over the body to keep from over heating. I use watermelon and shorten the procedure considerably. After all, how it integrates with the actual string break ambiance is my focus.

How much if any of this may be Taoist Alchemy or Magic influenced?

Good question. More than we care to admit. On the other hand, until those with the skills are willing to go under the scrutiny of science we won’t know except for using discernment and common sense. A Taoist has no concept of the Christian meaning of Pentecost…the shedding of Holy Spirit to each born from that time. Talk about changing the paradigm meaning of chi! Can anyone fathom the "I am that I am," as in direct link with one’s guardian angel? Whatever works, as my former teacher would say.

Does the Springy Palm really cause cancer according to legend? How would that scientifically be explained?

 In perspective of the centerpiece coconut break, the springy palm damages the meat inside the coconut without damaging the outside hard shell. I have cut coconuts open after my strikes to verify this. I even documented breaking the shell while leaving the coconut in tact. Training eclectically in so many of these methods has produced some miraculous breaking experiences. This is what a fellow Urantia book reader with a couple of Masters degrees in science related fields allowed me to quote when I asked him for his two cents regarding this legendary oral tradition phenomenon. His name is Sandor Szabados and here are his comments for this article. "As to why the monks believed that such a blow would cause cancer, I can only speculate, more so because the cause (s) of cancer are not really known at present. Here is my guess, for whatever it is worth. Cancer is defined as ‘an uncontrolled growth of cells that disrupt body tissue.’ The blow (s) could produce high-energy waves that could conceivably disrupt the ‘harmony’ of the waves generated by the electrons in the atoms of ‘healthy’ cells, just as x-rays and ultraviolet rays do. It is known that exposure to these high-energy waves causes cancer because they are very short and thus able to penetrate soft tissue. Blows of this type used in your martial arts "may" do the same."

What makes Mew Hing's 18 Daoist Palms' Burning Palm "Sone Tan" different than say the Tibetan Lama Burning Palm or the Shil lum Mt. One Finger Burning Palm you teach?

The "Sone Tan" is much more advanced. It takes years and years to get through the different levels, each with their own striking procedures and (2) fighting moving meditations. The striking procedures vary greatly. Water, air, rice/cotton/sand…very unusual and varied. The Sone Tan was originally valued at $20,000. It was traditionally demonstrated in a similar manner as the Tibetan Lama, albeit left blistering burn scars.

How many iron palm moving meditations do you teach? Are they generic qigong or are they specific to each iron palm type?

I teach hundreds of iron palm fighting moving meditations of all types. Each iron palm type comes with its specialized jows, procedures and fighting forms and meditations. Some of the meditations for these iron palm types pre-date Tai Chi Chuan and date back to the older Taoist Martial Moving Meditations.

Why the massive amounts of seated, standing and standing moving meditations and what purpose do they serve? Is there a logical progression?

There is a logical progression to a point with teaching iron palm meditations in general. I say this because I customize courses for the individual, not the other way around all the time. Generally speaking, one progresses from seated meditations (chair or cross-leg depending on whether they are Buddhist or Taoist in their five elder absorption lineage.) Seated without hand movements are followed by seated with hand movements. Next come standing without hand movements, just postures, to standing with hand movements only. Then the hand movements only get more complex and lengthy. Footwork comes next, being incorporated with the hand movements and also progressively getting more complex.

Since you are now an on-line martial arts home study video exchange certification program since 1991, how do you go about helping a student integrate a customized iron palm curriculum from you?

I can only work on an individual basis in helping a prospective home study student put together a course geared for their special needs in the real world. I like to hear their voice and get to know each as a unique personality. The integration process includes entrepreneurial opportunities in ways that make giving and receiving equal.

Are you available throughout their training by phone and e-mail?

Being available throughout a home study student’s 15-year course up the ranks to master shi fu is the service sensitivity we offer. With advances in technology and the mere fact that half the colleges in America already offer computer home study exchange on-line, as I see it this is the high tech method of learning martial arts in the now and more so in the future. Empowering others to feed their families’ worldwide by doing what they love, teaching survival, of which once learned allows all else to be retrieved. Thus no matter the condition of Wall Street, martial arts are one of those things of precious culture that must be passed down from one generation to the next.
In closing, could the thrill of breaking be a stress reducer? Tae Bo like programs of kicking and cardio boxing seem to be popular for stress reduction. We all know about the benefits of martial yogic like moving meditation and now perhaps the myriad of iron palm striking types will become a practical addition.

Many will come to realize the simple scientific fact that punching things reduces stress. The striking procedures fill that need. Since Qigong has a foothold as a practical alternative to Hatha Yoga, and since it can be proven to open blood platelets to help oxygenate the body, it has become an accepted part of American Medicine referred to as the Alternative Healing Branch. People know now that five elder lineage is older than Ching Dynasty Tai Chi Chuan Styles, they know the Taoist martial moving meditations are older…thus the ambiance. Also, arguably they are shorter to learn and easier to remember along with being just as good or better than Tai Chi Chuan for health and self defense. The combination of qigong that is specifically iron palm appeals to healers and martial practitioners interested in adding fist conditioning.

Could one benefit without actually participating in breaking and still derive health and martial benefits?

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Mew Hing Productions
42499 Old Highway 80
P.O. Box 427
Jacumba, CA 91934-0427 USA